5th Street Contest Q and A

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20:02tavis

Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for our chat with Phil Kilcrease from 5th Street Games. The purpose of this chat is for him to talk a little about the contest and then he'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about the 5th Street Challenge. If you aren't familiar with this game design contest, please seehttp://news.thegamecrafter.com/

::polite clapping::

::Cheers::

::whistle!::

20:03tavis

If you aren't participating in this event, we would greatly appreciate you holding off on other conversation until we're done. It would make the conversation easier for everyone to follow. 

Allo, there!

20:03tavis

I'd like to introduce Phil from 5th Street Games!

Hello Phil

20:03zovu

Hey Phil

Evening Phil

20:04zovu

thanks for sponsoring the contest!

Tell us about %th Street

5th.

Io everyone. Thanks for the warm welcome!

Quick rundown on 5th Street for those who don't know us. We publish quick-playing, easy-to-learn games that are fun for gamer and non-gamer alike.

Think of a 5th Street game as solid filler for a gamer that can be used as bait to get your non-gamer friends into the hobby.

We swing for ages 8+ in 30 to 45 minutes.

20:06JeBuS

a general note: it will be helpful, Phil, if you answer questions by prefacing your answer with the name of the questioner

20:06JeBuS

eventually multiple questions will come at once

@Jebus: Will do, good Jebus.

Q: "cannot have Turn Loss" how set are you on that, and does that include abrupt turn end count?

@Broken Prism Games: Fairly set. Things like Jail in Bang, drawing a curse in Munchkin, or any multitude of effects in the Anima card games are good examples of what I'm looking to avoid. Turns ending early isn't as big of a deal if it's along the lines of 'lose X action points' or something like that.

20:10zovu

Q: How important is the art in this contest? Are you looking for the games to have final completed artwork? Or will placeholder art consisting of icons/simple public domain images be gives just as much of a chance?

20:11JeBuS

(art plays an important role in the community voting phase)

20:11Mr Alex

So its soft "take that" mechanics that stay away from all forms of player exclusion from the game - knuckle wrapping as opposed to eye gouging?

@Zovu: Placeholder art is just fine.

I'm thinking of a dice mechanic, where if you roll a specific result, say "3 of x" you get no re-rolls and can collect no cards, and your turn is over.

you would normal roll 5 dice then choose to re-rol up to 3 times

re-roll twice rather

@zovu: ...it should fit to the theme you're swingin' for if you can, though.

@Broken Prism Games: Like Farkling or Crapping out... yeah; that's fine. Those are good examples of press yer luck, and that's the price you sometimes pay for pressing too hard.

good.

Q: Are games with optional, additional rule sets that allow the game to grow with the individual player something that is OK to use?

Q: the grand prize, do you plan to manufacture with TGC?

hello

20:14zovu

Q: How important is the theme? Would a game like Farkle or Roll For It which don't have a theme be considered? Or are you not looking for those kinds of games?

@Mr Alex: That's an apt metaphor. Any 'take that' elements in the design shouldn't be the main focus of the game, and shouldn't completely shut someone out of the game.

hey

@zovu: Theme tends to be important for 5th Street. Farkle and Roll For It are both great for gettin' people playing, but aren't what we're lookin' for right now.

@Dave & Letiman: Howdy!

Thanks for doing this Q&A tonight Phil!

@Letiman: Glad to help clear things up. : D

Q: How strict is the "new" rule? I've had an idea I've been knocking around, not quite ready for playtesting, and never created on TheGameCrafter. Is that okay?

Q: You mention games with boards are preferred. How heavily weighted are you against cards-only games, and why?

Q: while cards games are allowed, but board games preferred, how likely are you to consider a card game?

hah, jinxx

ha.

20:19Mr Alex

Outstanding Q: Ramsby - rule sets and Q: Mathew TGC production?

20:20JeBuS

MD: so long as you've never put it into the TGC system, it's ok

@A Ramsby: Optional and variant rules are great! I tend to try and grow games I pick up in such a fashion if possible.

@ 5th Street : Thank you for getting to that answer

@Broken Prism Games: Manufacturing will be through mass manufacturer due to the quantities that will be produced; typically 2000 to start.

that answers my next question, of how many copies do you plan to produce, initially.

@Malevolent Donut: The 'newness' is whether it's been on Game Crafter before. If you have an idea you've been workin' on for awhile, that's totally fine so long as it's 'new' to Game Crafter.

Q. Do 5th Street games try to strive for an endgame where the game is over because 'i got x amount of pints/conditions.' or a - there's a set ending, do the best you can in X time/round/etc?

20:24Mr Alex

X amount of pints = drinking game

ywa!

(considering you descp above, and 30-45 min condition)

Yes*

Alisha can't type

=P

@MHeartwood: I'm totally for card games. My past two have been card games, actually. (Mob Town, Ghosts Love Candy).

Q: what is the release schedule? contest ends in September, so release in 2015?

@MHeartwood: Just been doin' board games primarily for awhile, so I'm more comfortable with 'em. But as the contest says, totally will give a good card game an equal shake against a board game.

@Broken Prism: That last response should cover yer card game question, too.

it does

So I guess dice games are out of question if card games are on the fence?

Ok, cool.

@guest josh, yeah no farkle or roll for it

20:27Mr Alex

Q: Placeholder art is fine = check, but how will the projected art required for a game fit into the judging? Such as a game that requires a huge financial outlay for multiple pieces of complex art as opposed to a small amount of simple art.

That's a shame

@TaLoG Games: Whichever fits your game better. Our line has both of the end conditions you mention, so I have no preference one way or the other.

Q: h

house

hoe involved will the designer be in the entire process. Apologies for horrible fingers hitting enter early.

argh

*how

Good guess flux. 

@Broken Prism: RELEASE / KICKSTARTER SCHEDULE: It would Kickstart in mid-2015 at the earliest, early 2016 at the latest.

Q: Is Flux being here considered "indie espionage"

I hope so !

lol

20:29tavis

Their contest is over. 

Almost!!! 

@Guest Josh: Dice games are a bit tougher. Even silkscreened dice can get pricey quickly. If it uses standard dice, there isn't any problem at all. It's the custom dice that getcha.

hola

Hey glub!

I guess so but depends on number of dice molds

How's it going

new zelda looks sick

glub, 5th street contest Q&A

please keep chat to that

OH

So does the new Super Smash

Yeah geez

=P

i'll just stand in the corner

@Mr. Alex: ART REQUIREMENTS - In the finals, that will only come into play if it's a crazy amount of custom art (40+ pieces, not counting a board or box).

20:33Mr Alex

Thankyou

Q. Obviously there are some parts not on TGC, are you open to possibly small custom wood parts for example (obv. not as a requirement, but for added collness)

Had a game in mind with 10 custom dice (one mold) and game tokens

@One Man Act Games: I work with designers in refining an idea to final completion, allowing them to be as involved as they'd like to be.

If thinking of using custom dice, consider standard dice with a board or card references maybe?

(That was directed at Josh, not a Q for 5th street)

@Broken Prism: FLUX SPIEZZZ! Lulz...

I guess but it doesnt need any as currently implemented

20:36Mr Alex

1 dice mold for 10 identicial dice isnt a huge overall cost. 10 different molds for 10 different custom dice is a HUGE cost

game loses theme with cards and regular dice but maybe that's just me

@5th street. that you responded to that endeared me to you and your company. It is refreshing that you are having as much fun as you are taking this seriously.

@TaLoG Games: Any wood used in the contest would likely be converted to standees / cardboard tokens for the basic form of the game, as I see cardboard as an art opportunity. Wood could be an overfund bonus, though.

@josh: IMO card reference could add to theme by allowing for more focus on art... but I have no idea what your theme is

@5th street: would a game with expansion thoughts be valued over a game without?

but yeah tooling for multiple identical things is not that expensive

20:39tavis

MHeartwood, you guys are free to talk about that after this chat, but let's keep questions directed at Phil for right now please

Ahh okay, I may do wood during contest though to lessen art I need to do with time frame (more time to test)

20:39Mr Alex

My game is a co-operative with a protecting the rainforest theme - it uses 200 individual wooden pieces, wooden card stands and a wooden peg board for point tracking

I have a co-op game idea about being Riot Control. It's a co-op worker placement

@Guest Josh / Mr Alex / MHeartwood: CUSTOM V. STANDARD DICE: Regular dice with a chart is one way to do it, as Mr Alex is correct in dice molds being where you get stabbed in the head cost-wise. If it's only a few custom dice, stickered indented dice work just fine, too.

Theme is "mining", the dice are ore lodes. Start with 6 then add 2 after 1st reroll , then add the last 2 after 2nd reroll and beyond. When 4 cave in occur your turn ends. The tokens are various ore and diamonds...so it could have cards but the portable dice setup works

@Broken Prism, Bouncing Bomb: SERIOUS FUN - Well, thankee. : D

20:41Mr Alex

My rain forest protection game is called Irony - with a planned expansion called sarcasm 

Q: how involved will the designer be in the entire process. (q from daniel one man act games)

It was answered. Thanks, Matt. 

Alex: Would a stretch goal be rainforest wooden boxes?

sorry i was looking for the answer and didn't see it

Answer was basically as involved as we want to be...

ok.

Beyond Gamecrafters when you get up into the 500 to 1000 copies which companies have people used? I know Panda and the Chicago Card games...

@One Man Act: That's a GREAT question. Games don't *need* to have expansions, but Kickstarter friendliness (ease of integrating new content) is definitely something that will be taken into consideration.

Q: What is the long term plan, does the designer see a percentage, or do you have a "buy outright" plan

good question

@TaLog: WOOD TO SAVE ON ART - Totally cool. Games with wood will *NOT* have any marks against them for having wood.

@Mr Alex: SAVE THE RAINFOREST - Well, it may not *save* it, but there will at least be a nice board game version of the rainforest to enjoy. : D

I am *struggling* to maintain maturity regarding the value of games that "have wood"...

lol

Q. I know it'd be in contract, but what is the rights of the product - meaning that say 5 years down the road I make a personal game co (trust me this is not my plan) would I still be able to sell the game as mine, or does it need to come from you guys/resell/print run. I suppose part of this is Matt's long term goals q.

@MrGlub: Hoo. The theme sounds interesting, but that isn't inherently 5th Street friendly, unfortunately. : / Are the mechanics ages 8+?

Q: in the event that 2nd and 3rd place are truly amazing game concepts would you feel good about offering them a publishing deal as well, with 1st place being the first published and priority for 2015.

@5th street: What sort of bribery items would help us win? Cookies? Favorite flavor? 

@Steward Keeper: PRODUCTION COMPANY - 5th Street uses Quality Playing Card Inc.

@5th Street Q: If someone wins the contest and takes the contract, would they be given a second view if they later bring a secondary game down the line? Given the fact that they had proven themselves once before.

@daniel if you bring cookies I'll bring a pet T-Rex =P

@Broken Prism: ROYALTY OR BUY RIGHTS - We're a firm believer in a designer retaining overall ownership of her designs. We license for 5+ years at a royalty between 5 - 8%.

QPC is an excellent manufacturer... hehe

Deal, Alisha. 

20:50Mr Alex

Boggles at the complexity of future event scenarios pertaining to contracts

Q: along rambsy line of question, I asked the same thing of Flux capacity, Can we submit other game ideas to you outside of the contest. mail in prototypes and such. Are you open to that.

Q: Do contracts apply to the rights of only the physical copies of the game, or also cover rights to digital editions?

@TaLoG: RETENTION OF RIGHTS - After the contract reaches the end of its initial life cycle, it automatically renews year-to-year until one party voluntarily severs the agreement. To sell the game yourself again, you would simply sever the contract after the initial period of license is complete.

20:52Mr Alex

Q: If im abducted by aliens will future royalties be payable at my new location in the galaxies with Grubledock credits and how will the currency exchange work (pls dont answer)

lol

@Broken Games: MULTIPLE OFFERS BEYOND 1ST PLACE - Maybe, but no promises! Close to half of my catalog is *from* Game Crafter, so I'm expecting some awesomeness.

20:53tavis

true story there folks.

@A Ramsby: FUTURE GAMES WITH 5TH STREET IF WINNER - We do accept submissions, but folks we've worked with before get priority attention during the review process. Production is based on other factors, but the review itself will tend to be fast tracked.

Q: does a designer like Grey Gnome Games, with a wildly popular fleet of games, have a better chance of winning due to a known fan base/following. or does the underdog or truly indie designer have a real chance at seeing there game published. (sorry jason you're just a great example for this issue)

And the claws come out =P

@Broken Prism: SUBMISSION POLICY - 5th Street currently has an open submission policy, and what we're always lookin' for is exactly the kind of game you'll be designing for the contest. You'll have to give me a few weeks at most to get back regarding the review of a ruleset.

@JohnduBois: DIGITAL RIGHTS - They cover digital rights, as well. I'm planning to start swingin' into apps in late 2015 / early 2016.

Nice... apps

20:58Mr Alex

Clarification: Solid game with easily explained rules, a family friendly theme, no exclusion mechanics that eject players from the game (temporarily or permanently), suitable as a gateway game to attract and hold the attention of new gamers(no super heavy euros), realistic artwork and component demands - is that a reasonable summary so far?

Q: if you design an app based on my game, and then the license ends, do you intend to still sell and support the app. or will that turn back over to the designer.

you forgot whimsical Mr Alex 

Mr Alex: FORWARDING ROYALTIES TO FOREIGN GALAXIES - That will depend on what trade arrangements Earth has with the Grubles in question. (To quote Sealab in answering your question... Too bad. : D)

20:58Mr Alex

Damn

Mustache stays on.

20:59Mr Alex

... and whimsical

is any saving a transcript of this chat for posterity?

I am

I will post it later tonight on my blog

@Broken Prism: WELL KNOWN DESIGNER V UNKNOWN - All about the game design.

21:00Mr Alex

Im chiseling it out on grantite tablets to be buried for future generations - aw, you just made me carve a spelling mistake

Mr Alex: CONTEST SUMMARY SO FAR - That's a good summary. Thanks good sir.

@5th Street, I'd love to believe that its all about the game design, but the first round elimination is completely a popularity contest. if i can get my 163 kickstarter backers to vote for my game in the contest then GUEST JOE who may have a better game gets cut in the first round.

21:02tavis

just like in real life, you have to sell yourself. This is no different. 

Q: follow up to that. Will you look at games cut in the first round to make sure nothing that looks amazing to you didn't get cut out due to cliques and cyber bullying

21:03Mr Alex

If the entries where posted without the entrants names attached it would be different - and it would be v easy to do

@Broken Prism: APP LICENSE AFTER CONTRACT LAPSES - That would be a separate contract signed with the software developer in terms of continued support and sales. The software dev contract will likely tie into the original contract to help cover such an event.

So graphic challenged designers like myself are out of contest already or have to hire an artist prior to submission to have a chance

21:04Mr Alex

placeholder art is fine Josh

no Josh placeholder is fine

Ok perfect

@Broken Prism: LOOKING AT FIRST ROUND CUTS - I do for all the contests GC does, and this one will be no different. It'll be outside the contest if I approach ya, though.

*whew* Caught up.

21:07Mr Alex

Q: How many fingers am i holding up?

if the artwork is something that you truly like, would you consider keeping it and how would that process work. Do you have a going rate for your artists?

21:08Mr Alex

6

Q: will a game with a stronger theme beat out a game with stronger gameplay, or will the theme be reworked for the stronger gameplay entry?

@Mr Alex: NUMBER OF FINGERS - Yes.

@Bill: KEPT ART IN FINAL VERSION - Art that I end up keepin' in the game will result in a higher percentage for the designer (as the art is already taken care of, and is typically the designer that did it in such cases).

gotcha. I know Danny does all of his own art so just wanted to make sure the same can go for a contest entry. Thanks for the clarification

21:10Mr Alex

Q: At TGC is it possible to add some code so that entrantscan tick a competition box that will render the name annoymous for the duration of a contest?

21:11colink

the game name, or the designer name?

21:11colink

and why would you do that?

@One Man Act: STRONG THEME V STRONG GAMEPLAY - Gameplay will typically win out unless there isn't really any other theme we can apply. Mob Town's a good example here. Danny and I wracked our brains tryin' to do another non-mob theme, but couldn't come up with one. So, we ended up doin' the mobsters as animals.

And thanks for the contest. Looking forward to it! I'll read the rest of it tomorrow morning. Time to go to bed. Night all.

21:11Mr Alex

the designer name so that the popularity voting in the first round isnt so much of an issue

Don't think that would matter. People would still favor their clique since they'd know what game their favorite person made

Night bill!

I will have a complete un edited transcript available shortly after the Q&A ends

@Broken Prism: TRANSCRIPT - Uh... better make a bold statement. ...NEW YORK CITY?

I just rammed Jotunn down people's throats here in the chat room.  No clique, just bludgeoning with words!

(get the rope)

21:13Mr Alex

not thats its a big huge issue - everyone tends to vote on the merits of the games from what ive seen

The only way to get rid of the popularity contest is to actually get rid of the popularity contest and go straight to judging.

I think Phil will do a good job of picking the best game for 5th Street based on the game.

i did it for the flux capacity Q&A and it was really helpful for designers that couldn't make it, and was helpful for refereeing back to for designers that forgot during the length of the contest

Besides, he can pick ANY game from the contest even if it does not make the semi finals

21:15Mr Alex

Judges wildcard 

If that's the case there's no worries for anyone really

...and you have my word I'll go through after the first round elims.

Any more contest-style questions?

Thanks for taking the time to answer everything! 

hellow evryone

Thanks for doing this, it is an important step in a contest.

Yes, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. I for one have seen the contract 5th street offers due to asking for a view. It is very clear and fair for anyone who wins the contest.

21:17tavis

Alright, this concludes our web chat with Phil. Thanks again for taking the time to talk with our designers.

Yeah, thanks for the Q&A, and for sponsoring the contest!

Q: if a new set of questions come up should we contact you directly?

Great clarifications all around, thanks for doing this

Glad to help, everyone. : D

21:18Mr Alex

Thanks for popping in to chat with us Phil, stop by any time  Motions for Blub to come out of the corner

21:18Mr Alex

or Glub

@Broken Prism: ASKING AFTER THE QA - You can hit me up on Twitter: @5thstreetgames.

Has a great night all!

oh, did i just miss something big on here?

21:19tavis

Matthew, if you want to share that chat log you can email me the link to where you post it and I'll toss it up on news for everyone who missed this chat

perfect

21:19Mr Alex

We just had a seminar on punctuality and timing Jester

oh eff

21:19tavis

SJ, we had a web chat with Phil @ 5th Street Games. New game design contest. (news.thegamecrafter.com for more info)

Don't worry SJ, you can win the contest by sending the most cash to Phil's house...

to bad im a broke indie dev

21:20tavis

uh.. to my house actually. Forget Phil!

lol

21:21Mr Alex

is Phils house on 5th Street?

21:21tavis

nope, 6th

It better be

21:21tavis

he plays games on 5th street, but lives on 6th

21:21Mr Alex

lol

im going to tell drewd2 about this i have high hopes for "last stand"

Buys his groceries on 7th

21:22Mr Alex

Buys his beer on 1st street (thirst)

21:22tavis

alright folks, I'm outta here for a bit. Thanks for showing up and asking good questions! We expect to see some awesome games in the days ahead. 

buries his victims in the park on 8th

I need more coffee